Guidance needed for an ambitious project.

garden-junkie

I mentioned this project in another thread, but feel like it needs a spot all its own.

A couple of years ago, when my husband was on a pottery throwing kick he made a small bowl he wasn't happy with, so on a lark I picked it up and remodeled it. He took it to class, fired it and did an awesome raku glaze. It's a happy accident and a joint effort. It stands 5 1/2" tall and I know it would make a wonderful concrete planter! I'm thinking 22" would be a good size.

I don't expect to duplicate the finish, of course. I'll be making my 1st armature AND learning to sculpt with concrete. Ambitious, I know, but I also KNOW I can do this with help from y'all. I've sketched and measure the original and done a little research. Can y'all point me in the right direction as far as... well, everything, I guess. I can spend days researching and learning, but how will I know I've found the BEST info without your imput?

I'm studying Tango's 'how to build a faux bois table', to learn about armature materials, and am finding it very useful!

Open my eyes guys, to things that I don't know, I don't know. And thanks!
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pogo · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:47 am Post subject:

That's a beautiful piece! Especially with its history. And a very ambitious project for you!! I haven't replied to this post because I would hardly know where to start! What are you thinking for armature material? If it were me I might try multiple layers of chicken wire. There was a post here by Jynja last winter featuring a chicken wire artist (lol) and he did amazing things. Or maybe you wouldn't need an armature at all, especially if you didn't include that strip across the back. Jynja wet carves some beautiful head pots. Where is Jynja anyway lately? Maybe the wet carvers here (there are some really good ones!) would have some advise.

Sorry, I'm no help but your post looked lonely without a reply.

aartwmich · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:43 am Post subject:

Agrees with pogo about the armature. I think you could sculpt then wet carve it.

Use some bonding agent instead of water and very fine sand, mix your mud pretty thick and sculpt the basic shape...you may have to kind of keep playing with it until the mud sets up enough to sculpt.

Then keep it damp and covered with plastic and give it an hour or two to continue setting...keep checking it so you can get the feel for 'when you can do what'. Maybe sculpt a second lump o the same mix to experiment with as time passes.

First you'll be able to hog off alot of material to refine the shape, then as it hardens you'll be able to do more fine details.

...but if you want to go big I would follow Tango's table technique...some kind of metal rod covered with stucco lathe, then coat to sculpt and carve as described above.

Mytwocents
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Anne (the 'e' is silent) aka aartwmich

vikki · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:34 pm Post subject:

I have done mostly faces with bodies attached. the trouble I have is my hands are too weak to really form the armature to the perfect shape. but if you manage to get an oval going you should be ok, then just build it up from there. do a combo of sculpting and carving. you will have a blast
here is a link to a thread I started that has some of my faces, all are built on a plant cage covered with wire and built up from there.
http://www.thegardenartforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2814

garden-junkie · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject:

Pogo, thanks for opening the door for comments. I realize my call for guidance was too broad, with no particular question and hard to respond to.

I got ahead of myself yesterday, and instead of waiting for suggestions, found myself throwing together a form made from old tomato cages and some heavy wire we had in the shop attic. I'm liking how light wieght it is. I've got the face in profile attached and do have a roll of 1/2" hardware mesh that I'm anxious to slap on to flesh out the form. I'm considering this a prototype and not going to spend too much time trying to get an exact likeness, just a feel for the process.

Ann(e), thanks for the advice. I am anxious to wet carve a big blob of cement, looking for what's inside, but I'm not confident I'd find anything remotely resembling my lady. Very Happy

Vikki! I was so proud of myself for 'inventing' the use of tomato cages! Lol. That old saying, " Ain't nothin' new under the sun.", applies here. I'm off to look at your stuff.

Thanks y'all!
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aartwmich · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:19 pm Post subject:

AnitaKittel · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject:

I love the head and can't wait to see how you replicate it in cement. I've never done any armatures or sculpting so I will refrain from giving advice.
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Anita Kittel

EdB · Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:44 am Post subject:

I knew it wouldn't take long for the answers to come ... either from others or yourself ! Sculpting and carving not being my forte` .. it is interesting to watch how the thread progresses.
Ed
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garden-junkie · Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:05 pm Post subject:

So, I spent yesterday and this morning getting a feel for 1/2" hardware mesh. Tough stuff, but I'm finding ways to 'work' it, instead of it working me. I'm cutting it in workable strips then lashing it back together using it's own pointy ends to wire it to the next. Course I'm overlapping those areas for strength. Right or wrong, it seems to be working for me. Since I could only find 2 large lefthanded leather gloves, I'm working barehanded... slowly. My only injury, knock wood, is when the whole piece toppled over and got my left forearm. It's not bad at all, and gloves wouldn't have protected that area, anyway. Still, I've got to get gloves! Maybe it can wait though, because I'm close to slapping some crete on it!

I'm scairt!

I'll take pictures.

And oh, it's securely affixed to a base and shouldn't tump over again.

Now I'm off to estimate volumn. Is this where algebra or geometry applies? DANG! I should have paid attention all those many, many, years ago.

Before I forget,

aartwmich · Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject:

Come on...cough up the pics!!!! Sounds great, I can't wait to see it!!

garden-junkie · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:48 pm Post subject:

Crete lady is not finished, but I do have a few pics taken in progress.

This is the tomato cage armature with a little mesh attached. Couldn't get a good picture due to too much background stuff, so this is a pic of its shadow on a door.

Once all the mesh (ouch!) was on, I flipped her on her head and started slapping on small batches of scrap crete. It was very hot in the shop, but there was a nice breeze that I wasn't willing to give up. Actually, the breeze seemed to work in my favor. I had fortifier in the mix, so it stiffened up on the mesh fast enough that the next small batch had something substantial to hang onto. I did keep it covered while mixing. Once the scrap was on the form, I left her sit for 6 hours then very carefully turned her upright. Here she is, thin faced and mannish.

I'm calling her 'crete monster' now. Unfortunately, almost 48 hours later there's been no progress. Temps have been @ 105 for the last few days and will stay over 100 for several more, so its curing while I hide out in the house.

I will be able to add to her, right? Of course I can. Anyone have a tried and true method?
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vikki · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject:

she will be beautiful I can tell already. excellent work

aartwmich · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject:

VERY cool!! Looks like you've got it going on girl!
I love the shadow pic!!! The nose is awesome.

Keep in mind to keep her wet and covered in plastic so she will cure up right, might have to spray her a few times a day if she's in the heat and especially wind can dry her out too fast. (how you people live down there in that heat is beyond me) Takes 28 days to fully cure concrete but 10-14 days will get you 80% of full strength, but ya gotta keep it wet. Once it dries it won't cure.

If you plan on adding more concrete you need to 'scratch' the prior coat to give a mechanical 'hook' for the next batch of crete to grab onto. You can do it when the mix is wet by carving or if it's dried a diamond blade in an angle grinder will do the trick.

When you go to put the next coat on mix up some plain portland and water or admix to make a slurry and paint that on where you're going to add more concrete.

Good luck, have fun, you are doing great!!
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Anne (the 'e' is silent) aka aartwmich

mares · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject:

garden-junkie - ain't it fun?

garden-junkie · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:33 pm Post subject:

vikki · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:08 am Post subject:

you are gonna love working on this, and love it when its done. your base is great! you can come to maui anytime. I think the garden art forum was working on a group trip just a few months ago! Very Happy

keep us updated with more pictures. can't wait to see more

garden-junkie · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject:

I'm working on the lady today and popped back in to refresh myself on what needs to be done to add more crete (Thanks again Anne!) , but thought I'd share a bit too.

delladolittle · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject:

Wow, I think your doing great! Funny thing is, in Pic one I see a lady and the next two I see a man, the angle changes it for me... Sorry that was probably no help at all.
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aartwmich · Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:29 am Post subject:

But you can use his grinding tools to cut some slots to really make it a scratch coat Very Happy

I think the original looks fairly masculine, pretty strong jaw and chin, the concrete one is not photographed from the same angle so it hard to say...but who's to say, my opinion is probably derived from the stereotype that men have wide faces and women have narrow faces when in fact either can be true. The drastically slanted eye in the originial kind of gives the impression of a woman...again maybe a sterotypical opinion.
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Anne (the 'e' is silent) aka aartwmich

admin · Site Admin

I learned long ago not to comment on unfinished artwork. I know personally, I am making changes both small and large right up to the end. Plus, I agree with Anne that there are a lot of misguided and incorrect assessments made based on stereotyping and the fashion of the moment.

One of my favorite female faces of all time is one that is decidedly feminine yet has very powerful features. See her here...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Lady-Libertys-Crown-Opens-on-4th-of-Jul y/

I think Bartholdi captured the perfect balance to convey feminine strength in this work. It's as if she's saying..."yes, I am caring and compassionate and giving. But I won't take any BS". Maybe I'm old-school, but I think she is one classy dame.
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